Tonight on The Kelly File, Megyn Kelly took on the architect of ObamaCare for the second time. Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel called the ObamaCare numbers released today “disappointing,” but said it’s not surprising given the website’s problems.

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“That’s not right, Megyn, you’ve got the numbers wrong,” Emanuel said right off the bat, challenging the fact that almost five million Americans have had their insurance plans canceled.

After a heated back-and-forth, Kelly asked Emanuel if he believes the cancelations are unrelated to the ObamaCare rollout. He maintained that insurance companies cancel plans “all the time.”

Kelly pressed Emanuel repeatedly on whether he predicted insurance companies would cancel individual plans, forcing people into the exchanges. “Whether you could anticipate what business would do is irrelevant,” he answered.

“Stop saying that,” Kelly interjected, “Because I’ll tell you what’s relevant to my viewers. I think I know my viewers, and I think they think this is relevant. […] Why didn’t you say to the American people ‘you need to know what’s going to happen on the individual insurance market because it’s going to be very relevant to your life, your health and your children’s health.’”

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The rationale for not warning people, he said, was because the government would be offering a “better platform” for people to get insurance.

Emanuel went on to blame Fox News for creating an inhospitable environment for the exchanges. “You and your colleagues were constantly criticizing, trying to underfund it. […] It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy.”

Kelly responded, “I don’t think Fox News had anything to do with the rollout of As far as I know, we didn’t touch that website.”

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